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[00:01:34] Speaker C: And welcome, welcome welcome to another edition of Guardian here on 96.9 FRESH NEWS. Smart talk all day. I'm your host pastor Dr. Cleveland W III, also known as Kahun Anku Sarah. We are streaming live on on guardiantalkradio.com you can also catch up with US Cable Bahamas channel 969 or BTC Flow channel 612.
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The story of migration in the Bahamas is a unique and integral part of the wider Caribbean pattern, defined by its close proximity to the United States, its role as both the dust and the complex social dynamics this creates.
Of course you have the early settlement known by some as the Lucayan era. The first chapter, they say, of Bohemian migration mirrors the broader Caribbean story of indigenous settlement.
The first inhabitants were the Lucayans.
And of course, this is what I'm introducing the show with, is the narrative that they give us. We're going to test this narrative today, along with a lot of other things. I'll introduce you to my guests in just a second, but here's what we're taught. The first inhabitants were the Lucayans, the Arawakian speaking Taino people who began migrating from Hispaniola and or Cuba to the islands around 500 to 800 AD.
Over the next 800 years they spread throughout the archipelago, reaching a population of about 40,000 at the time of European contact. This era ended tragically with the arrival of Christopher Columbus in 1492, as nearly the entire Lucan population was enslaved and transported to other islands, leaving the Bahamas largely depopulated for over a century.
Then you had a destination for regional migrants. As the broad Caribbean pattern shifted The Bahamas became a key destination for migrants from other parts of the region. Academic sources highlight significant migration flows from various British West Indian Islands. For instance, there are dedicated studies on the migration of people from Barbados, Jamaica and the Turks and Caicos Islands to the Bahamas at different points in history, showing the nation's role as a regional hub.
This outward labor migration, the Florida connection in a distinct pattern that sets it apart from many other Caribbean islands. Bahamian outward migration in the late 19th and early 20th centuries was primarily directed towards the nearby state of Florida rather than the United Kingdom or other colonies. Of course we know the contract.
From 1880 to 1920, a decline in major agricultural exports in the Bahamas pushed many Bahamians to seek work in Florida, particularly in the growing city of Miami. This movement was so significant that it had major implications for Bahamian families, agriculture and the local economy throughout through the remittances sent back home. This migration to Florida was also shaped by oppressive racial conditions. Fleeing these conditions, some Bahamians migrated to Florida in search of economic opportunities.
However, discriminatory policies such as the US Immigration act of 1924, the John Reed act, eventually barred many Bahamians from entering Florida, effectively cutting off a major migration route.
And there's the modern diaspora. Brain drain the Bahamas is a nation that experiences both significant immigration, immigration and emigration, a pattern reflected across the modern Caribbean.
A A magnet for migrants is what some would call us the Bahamas remains a key destination.
As of mid-2024, the country hosted 67,493 international migrants, representing 17% of its national population. The largest group of migrants comes from Haiti, 17,735 people, followed by the United States 5,003 325 and Jamaica 2,582. The Bahamas also acts as a major remittance sending country with migrants in the country sending $261 million abroad in 2023, the second highest algorithm primarily to support families in and the USA. The brain drain Conversely, the Bahamas is challenged by the emigration of its high skilled citizens, a phenomenon widely known as brain drain. Each year thousands of students leave abroad and many do not return due to a lack of suitable employment or better opportunities elsewhere.
Research suggests bohemian immigrants are primarily motivated by the desire for educational, professional and athletic development not available in the Bahamas, as well as the appeal of living communities where one's career trajectory is not limited by nepotism or political preferences. This loss of human capital is a significant concern for the country's development.
And then of course, we have asylum seekers. Reflecting a global trend, the Bahamas is also a source of asylum seekers. A recent report indicates that thousands of Bahamians have sought refuge abroad, with 2,742 officially registered as refugees. Our guest today, in no particular order, we have.
To my right, Christopher Davis, also known as John Qua ii. We have Luby Georges. Did I say that last name correct? Georges Georges. Luby Georges. And then we have good brother, Brent Wong.
Gentlemen, just briefly introduce yourselves. Brandon, we'll start with you since. Since, you know, you haven't been on the show before, so we can start with you, but just tell everybody who you are, and then we'll just dive right into why you're here today.
[00:07:48] Speaker D: In short, I'm a. I'm a Kong salad of heritage.
[00:07:50] Speaker C: A conch salad of heritage.
[00:07:52] Speaker D: That's the easiest way to summarize.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
[00:07:54] Speaker E: Okay.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Yeah, Luby, people know you well, but. But again, just introduce yourself.
[00:08:01] Speaker F: Boy, I could borrow that
[00:08:04] Speaker G: because a
[00:08:04] Speaker F: lot of persons don't know of my Cuban background.
[00:08:08] Speaker H: Wow.
[00:08:09] Speaker F: Also because my granddad was born in Cuba to a Cuban woman and a Haitian man, and I myself being born here in the Bahamas, so. Yeah. And on my mother's side there, she can trace some of her lineage back to. Of course, if we go as far back as we need to go, we end back up in Africa.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: Right, right, right.
[00:08:31] Speaker F: But there is a passage also on my mother's side that goes through Syria.
[00:08:36] Speaker C: Okay, yeah.
[00:08:37] Speaker F: So in Haiti, a lot of people may not know that there are a lot of Middle Eastern persons, heritage individuals residing in Haiti.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: So. Yeah. All right. And then, of course, Jungkwa ii, Christopher
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Davis, also known as chief John Canoe ii, Pan Africanist, historian, author.
[00:08:58] Speaker C: Yes, and I'm being told that we have Dr. Tinker online. Dr. Tinker, what's going on, brother?
[00:09:04] Speaker G: What's going on, man? That's Libby George's Libby. You changed your name or what? I thought it was Louis George. Now you're trying to sound more French on us. Well, it is.
[00:09:12] Speaker F: Well, if we were in Haiti, it would be Georgia.
[00:09:15] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:09:17] Speaker G: Louby is my boy. Matt Luby was probably one of the first, I think. I don't know, maybe not the first, but maybe the second or third show I ever went on when I was in Nassau, probably. But damn, that's 2015 movie.
[00:09:29] Speaker F: Yeah, that's quite a long time. I remember, man.
[00:09:31] Speaker G: You.
[00:09:32] Speaker E: You.
[00:09:32] Speaker F: You took me also in the Fox hill area down to your homestead, gave me the whole story about what was the guy named Kimbo Slice.
[00:09:41] Speaker G: Yes, Kimbo Slice. Yeah, my cousin.
[00:09:43] Speaker F: Yes, yes, you were the One that gave me the backdrop.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Kimbo slice. So you find me to. Elisha obeyed too, then.
[00:09:49] Speaker G: Yeah. All them Fergusons, they're all grandmother. I think great grand. There were sisters, and then you have
[00:09:55] Speaker A: the judo extraordinaire, Roddy Ferguson. So them Fergusons, they could fight.
[00:10:07] Speaker C: My great grandmother.
My great grandmother is Arabella Ferguson.
[00:10:11] Speaker G: Oh, wow.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Yeah, Yeah, I could fight, too.
[00:10:14] Speaker I: Right,
[00:10:17] Speaker C: listen, this, this show entitled the show how youw Reach in the Bahamas. That's how I entitled this show how you reach in the Bahamas. And I, I think. And like I said, we can do this once a month because it's just important for us to understand how we all connected.
Brent, I'm going to start with you. I was talking to brother Brent here. That was what, maybe about a month ago, a little less about.
[00:10:39] Speaker H: Yeah.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: And we, we, we. We started to have this conversation about ancestry and. And heritage and where you come from and all that.
Of course, my father was born in Nashville, Tennessee, because my grandparents, my grandfather was at Meharry Medical School, and my grandmother was at Fisk University in Nashville.
But long story, they returned here, back to the Bahamas. But my grandmother, Frazier Holmes, when you're outcast, rapping with Frazier Holmes, that's my great grandfather.
Right.
So I have American roots.
I'm sure as you dig further and further, you find the Haitian, you find a Jamaican, my old schoolboy because he went to school in Jamaica. My parents were married in Jamaica.
So this kung salad aspect of.
Or this diasporic aspect of who we are, we would be having this conversation.
But as we were talking, Brent was mentioning his heritage and how.
And I don't want to speak out of turns, I'm going to let him actually explain it. But what I did remember hearing him say is that coming through Jamaica, the Chinese that came through Jamaica, they have recorded the many migrant waves coming from China through Jamaica to the point where they have it documented in what's called. Would you call this the Red Book? Is that what it's called?
[00:12:18] Speaker D: That's what it's referred to.
[00:12:19] Speaker C: That's what it's referred to. So, Brent, I'm going to let you explain this because I think this is fascinating. And I pray that because of this conversation, others who may have similar ways of recording migration patterns may speak up. So I can let you explain, my brother.
[00:12:36] Speaker D: All right, so believe it or not, this the conversation behind what explains what this book was meant to document.
[00:12:46] Speaker C: The bucking studio, y'.
[00:12:47] Speaker G: All.
[00:12:47] Speaker C: We could see the book, the buck Real.
[00:12:49] Speaker D: And for the record, this is out of print.
[00:12:51] Speaker C: All Right, Right.
[00:12:52] Speaker D: So my copy had to be sourced through somebody who I knew who was actually. I think it's like the grand nephew of one of the original researchers that compiled the book.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:13:01] Speaker D: Right.
Now, why this matters to me a lot is because this is way multiple times, way more intentional effort and way more. I would like to call it ancestral sharing.
Than you would get from Jamaica. Sorry. Than you would get from Chinese and Obamas.
Everybody didn't come here the same way.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:13:24] Speaker E: Right.
[00:13:25] Speaker D: So I'll use a reference that I learned from, you know, your uncle Godfrey Ennis.
Right.
Everybody didn't come here the same way even if they came here in the same century.
[00:13:35] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:13:37] Speaker D: Some people came as free men.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: True.
[00:13:39] Speaker D: Okay.
So there is waves of migration. And in this book, when you get to the section where it actually shows you the map, so if you have an historical map that shows you an entire, let's just say multiple centuries of migration of a people, you will see where some people left a general, broad area. But what happens is they left in sections.
They didn't leave in sections only.
They also left in waves.
So in this book, it actually across
[00:14:10] Speaker C: different years coming out of China.
[00:14:12] Speaker D: Correct. The Hakka region. H A, K, K A.
The Hakka region. And it tells you the path they took before they actually left and then where they actually ended up.
Now, what's particularly valuable in this, it doesn't just show you that map.
They actually have.
I'm going to just use the words I have.
They have legacy photos. So they get as much generational levels of the family present in one setting and take that picture.
So what happens is there's pictures right now where the youngest child right now is 70 years old today.
[00:14:48] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
Wow.
[00:14:50] Speaker D: So everybody else holding them, they long gone.
[00:14:52] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:14:53] Speaker H: Right.
[00:14:55] Speaker D: From this same work, they also produce a black book.
It's the same people, but in Canada.
So one more hop.
Okay.
Why this is important to me is because I can't get this much information from the Chinese immigrated and settled here.
[00:15:12] Speaker C: Right, Right.
[00:15:13] Speaker D: So in the absence of getting the information from your own household and everybody who's ever had that curiosity but their ancestors, you get to the point where if you ask questions from your parents and your siblings and they can't answer you, you start hopping over auntie, Uncle, Papa, maybe the neighbor, Auntie, uncle, mom, and. Mm.
[00:15:32] Speaker G: Right.
[00:15:33] Speaker D: And then you start to realize, even if either they don't either have clarity on the story or their story have too much pain, so they don't want to tell you the story.
[00:15:44] Speaker G: Right.
[00:15:44] Speaker D: They don't Want to tell you the story. Or it may involve one or two shameful choices that they don't want to have to explain to you.
[00:15:51] Speaker C: Right.
[00:15:51] Speaker D: Because dying your business, everybody that had this conversation at least once.
[00:15:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Why not?
[00:15:56] Speaker F: I don't.
[00:15:57] Speaker D: Or not.
[00:15:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:58] Speaker D: That don't come before you.
You focus on your. I really wish I could.
But some of your life still trailing in mine.
[00:16:06] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:16:07] Speaker D: New questions.
So what it tends to do is it causes one of two things. It causes you to literally just create a whole new life without nothing to do with your family. Bring it ain't just talent because I won't create my own story.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: My lord.
I like it.
[00:16:23] Speaker G: Right.
[00:16:23] Speaker D: So I agree. That's, that's, that's how I ended up getting.
[00:16:26] Speaker C: So this Red book is, is, is not only focusing on those who ended up in Jamaica, but through the whole Caribbean.
[00:16:34] Speaker D: Is that because it documents who's basically the entire family lineage.
So if you could track that, that name when they actually married out, you could also find where they are now.
[00:16:48] Speaker E: Why?
[00:16:48] Speaker D: Because you got the entire lineage here.
[00:16:50] Speaker C: Right, Right.
[00:16:51] Speaker D: You know, up to a certain number of years, you see. So you might be able to get answers from mom and papa, but you probably could get it from grand auntie, grand uncle.
[00:17:01] Speaker E: Right.
[00:17:01] Speaker D: Like that.
[00:17:02] Speaker C: Right, right.
Chris, you just came back from Ghana and you know, in the African tradition we have the griots who will keep the stories, who will keep a lot of what I'm sure this Red book has in it. There are people who are, who are tasked with being a reservoir of information to make sure that when we come to ask questions, there's someone there to answer. And I, I mean I, I don't want to speak out of turn, but I find that's something that you're doing for us in this country in the bomb. You're agreeable. You understand what I'm saying?
So hearing what Brent has said and then the work that you're doing, how, how does the work that you're doing tie into what you heard him share just now?
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Certainly, you know, particularly when we talk about these sorts of topics, you know, and people, you know, I always talk about the, I call them the Ako Marine blooded Bahamians, and you make a parallel with the blue blooded Americans.
And the big first part of it is people simply don't understand what it is. When you say, I'm a Jamaican, I'm a Bahamian.
This talks about geopolitical loyalty and it has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity. And so the whitest of the white quote, unquote Bahamians, the blackest of the black Bahamian people who mix with Chinese, people who mix with whatever once within your soul and within your environment, of course that plays a role. But at the end of the day, your geopolitical loyalty is a choice. I could get mad today, wake up tomorrow, I say I am here, me no more. I migrated to Africa with my old family and I cutting off everybody and I ain't beheming no more. Now all of a sudden I Rwandan or Ghanaian or Kenya or any of the countries that actually opening up to the diaspora to do things like that, right? So I think that's the first part of it. Then we had these erroneous terms, you know, I don't like to drop too much of the terms, but erroneous terms like organic Bahamian and all of that and people oftentimes conflate ethnicity, right? And so the aquamarine blooded Bahamian or true, true Bahamian is someone who last name isn't Wong, you know, the last name gotta be Davis. Your last name could be George, but it can't be George or St. George with the es at the end, you know, and, and essentially it's really a sad situation because then you pretty much saying, well my colonizer or my enslaver was British, yours wasn't, therefore I'm better than you, you know, and then speaking to what Mr. Wong was speaking to, you know, and that's why I sort of really nodded and approved when he's talking about some of the, you know, the complexities of this history which is quite different than the African one. Of course. You know, generally speaking, even those that claim that they were free when they landed, all of them came or I' more than 99% came against their will, right? And then when you look at the East Asia, you see all of this was a part of what they call the totem pole of racism, right? And then you still see it today where of course people of African descent at the very bottom and everyone else, and of course people who are quote unquote white, Western European are at the top and everyone else in between that trying to jostle for position within this totem pole. You saw it of course, with that horrible incident with the 14 year old boy who was killed by a Korean shop owner, Right. And I sure Mr. Wong May could elaborate or correct me if I. But I know that when you look at places like Guyana in Jamaica, you know, there's this idea today and you had a lot of xenophobia.
Most of it, of course, is towards Haitians. Side note is interesting when he was reading and there was actually more American migrants in the Bahamas than there are Jamaican. And Jamaicans get way more flak from the aquamarine blooded Bahamians than Americans too. But that's a conversation for another day. But what the British did in East Asians, and this would have been mostly people from East India and certain groups within China itself is very diverse. You know, we just say Chinese now and that's the geopolitical term, but he said the Hakka region. And there are, I think, hundreds.
There are hundreds of different groups, ethnicities, languages, dialects and all of these things. But long story short, the British brought these East Asians over as sort of a buffer, particularly when slavery ended. So in the case of Jamaica and Guyana, a lot of these Chinese and East Indians came as indentured servants, some by choice, some not by choice. This had to do, for example, during the period of the Raj, that old big fat wooden teeth woman, Queen Victoria they have in Rosson Square, who, you know, I can't stand, right? She, when she was the quote, unquote, Empress of India, their capitalist system was so brutal that it actually caused a famine that resulted in the death of more than 30 million people. So with that type of, type of oppression, you find that a lot of people, you know, eating, you're starving, your family is dying from diseases and all sorts of stuff you would find similar to how it was in the earlier days in Europe. People will willingly even enter into indenture, right?
They would find ways because colonization existed in these places too, right? They would find ways to keep it. Now all of a sudden you're a criminal or you indebted. Now you got to go there and then you have to do an indenture. Of course it's very different than chattel slavery, but nonetheless, it was still slavery in a different form and by another name, right? And then you see it, even with blacks, where you have a lot of, let's call them our brothers, who deny that slavery have even happened. They tell you, boy, find me one slave ship. Yes, I'll find them 81. Then they'd be like, yeah, well, all that is lies. And I used to be like, so, so they, so they, they lie about bringing Africans over, put it in the newspaper so that 200 years later they could go back and ship. And then they say, make sure hit the shipping rack. Right, Right. So there's a lot of confusion about geopolitical loyalty. That's the first thing that people actually have to understand.
[00:22:56] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:22:57] Speaker G: Just put A. Put a little plug because I gotta drop off. I got an interview coming up and.
[00:23:01] Speaker C: All right, well, I have to use it.
[00:23:03] Speaker G: Still campaigning. Still can't.
[00:23:04] Speaker C: I got you.
[00:23:05] Speaker H: But.
[00:23:05] Speaker G: But listen, I. This topic here, I went to battle with this topic. This is a topic that I.
[00:23:14] Speaker E: That.
[00:23:15] Speaker G: That excites me to talk about it. Because this topic right here, when you look at indentured servitude, is what created a lot of prejudice in the Caribbean. Let me explain why. And I was married to an Indian for 20 years, so I can tell you very deep how deep this goes.
If you look at history and looked at who controlled the world at that time. Anybody you know, let's go. At this particular time of the world, after slavery was abolished, who controlled the world?
Who was in control?
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Still? White supremacy. Western Europe.
[00:23:47] Speaker G: No, let's forget white supremacy. The British.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: The British.
[00:23:50] Speaker G: So if the British is in control of the world, the world's superpower was the British Empire.
If you go back and look at the map and see how much land mass the British control, it's unknown.
[00:24:01] Speaker C: Settled in the British Empire, right?
[00:24:03] Speaker G: Including India. Because when you go to Guyana, Jamaica, Suriname and Trinidad, there's such a disgruntlement between Africans and Indians. Fiji, Kenya, South Africa, wherever the Indians went, right? There's a lot of disgruntlement between those two groups. So if I control India, all right, I can put it cold here.
You really think indentured servitude was really what it means? If I control you and I tell you, get your behind on this boat, we going to Jamaica.
That's no different from slavery, man, no matter how pretty the name they try to put on it. Because you'll hear in the Caribbean, real quick, as someone from Indian origin will tell you, real quick, slave.
And that's supposed to make them better than the African who taught them how to cut the cane, you understand?
Because don't forget now, Indians didn't know how to cut cane when they came to the Caribbean.
The African brothers taught them how to cut the cane because the keen was a crush, a cash crop for the British.
Same thing with Chinese, indentured servants, Germans, all of them. And if you even go back to China around these days, China was extremely poor. I mean, poor up until shortly after World War II, after they started to rebuild.
So these indentured servants, really, again, they might have come in bondage, but a lot of them was tricky. A lot of them was lied to, a lot of them was captured, a lot of them was forced, and they came in very similar conditions. As African slaves packed in those.
[00:25:46] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:25:47] Speaker G: And this is where a lot of the prejudice comes from. Now, where one person who would have came over and did same job, but that person might have gotten, you know, a couple of pennies for doing their work wise Africans were working unpaid.
And they create this hierarchy system that we're better than you because we didn't come as here as slaves. Certainly we came here as indentured servants. And then another thing, what the British did, which is very clever of them, is this divide and conquer. After the British started to pull out of these areas, a lot of the lands, Russia and Trinidad and Guyana was given to or sold to in some cases. And some of it was given to Indians for very cheap.
Where the Africans hated the land, they didn't want anything to do with the land. It's like, boy, I ain't going. I ain't planting nothing. I going in the city, I can make steel pan, I can make music,
[00:26:38] Speaker A: and we can have Carnival, Dutch disease.
[00:26:41] Speaker G: You see what I'm saying? So when you go to Trinidad and you go to Guyana, the, the Indians owned the majority of the land.
The land became very valuable as years went on. But after slavery, they didn't want anything to do with the land. Man, you just beat me and stomp me and, and make me work this land for free. I don't want to plan nothing. I going in town.
So you would see, you go to Trinidad and Port of Spain, you would see heavy African population, less Indian population around the city capital, around the coast. You go in the countryside, heavy Indian population still cultivating the land, and they got a lot of wealth from the land and they tried to maintain their cultural identity through music, through speaking the language, etc. But that's very clearly when you look at the Caribbean is where a lot of the prejudice, in so many cases, discrimination, I wouldn't call it racist, because if you look at an Indian and look at African at night, you can't tell who's who because they're both dark.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: But even though they'll try to tell
[00:27:45] Speaker G: you I'm better than you, even they will try to say I'm better than you. But when it comes to down to that, England treated all of them as non whites and, and to call all of them Negroes, to be quite honest.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: I appreciate what I'm saying. I appreciate that. Professor Thinker, I know this is something that you, I'm sure I joust with your students with, in, in, in your classrooms. When you were in the classroom, are
[00:28:07] Speaker A: you still in the classrooms?
[00:28:07] Speaker G: I know you're still in the classroom.
[00:28:08] Speaker C: Okay. Beautiful.
[00:28:09] Speaker G: Keeps me connected.
[00:28:10] Speaker C: Yeah, man.
I know you say you, you. You may have to step out, so I appreciate you being here, but if you, you. If you're still here after the break, I'm sure you can chime in.
[00:28:18] Speaker G: And I'll be here until three.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: All right, we got special guests Brent Wong, Luby George, and our brother, John Quad II. Christopher Davis. Again, my name is Dr. Cleveland W. He's the third. We'll be back after this. Keep it locked.
[00:28:34] Speaker D: Aware of vibrations our own die so
[00:28:37] Speaker B: I don't let the moment confound I
[00:28:40] Speaker A: and I away I will oh, am
[00:28:44] Speaker B: I aware of myself in the midst
[00:28:49] Speaker A: turn a trip to Burger King Nassau
[00:28:51] Speaker F: into a galactic adventure with the Mondo
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[00:28:58] Speaker A: or just here for your way, Burger King Nassau has everything Mandalorian Grogu related you could want. Grab the toys, the mugs, the crowns and your crew and head on down to BK and celebrate the Mandalorian and Grogu adventure with Burger King Nassau. This is the Wave
[00:29:17] Speaker B: at Star General. You can go Gold Comprehensive car insurance covers loss or damage from accidents, fire, theft and third party liability. But the gold package gives you increased coverage for rental car and windscreen, personal accident, medical benefits, deductible waiver and 24 hour roadside assistance where available. Our Star General Gold package also gives you up to $2,500 for accidental damage to a rental car anywhere in the Bahamas. Go gold with Star General insurance made simple.
[00:29:48] Speaker D: Change doesn't happen in sound bites. It happens when people come together and actually talk. The forum is that conversation where Bahamians from all walks of life work through the issues that affect us all, challenge each other and find solutions together.
Every Saturday, 11am to 1pm on Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM. The forum with Ricardo Welds coming this Saturday to Guardian Radio.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Bueller. Gal, can you believe this? We are now the patrol queens of the neighborhood. We now large and in charge. So we need to check out what going on in everybody yard. What about that gun that we know that Junior and his homeboys just ran out.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Can we report that too?
[00:30:28] Speaker C: Of course we can.
[00:30:29] Speaker B: But we could be in deep trouble
[00:30:31] Speaker C: if they find out.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: We need to report what we see. Viola, when you call crime Stoppers they dissolve call in Miami so then we can report everything. Guns, where they hiding the drugs, who shoot who, who part of which gang
[00:30:43] Speaker A: or who disturbing the peace with the
[00:30:44] Speaker B: loud music and the motorcycles and everybody
[00:30:47] Speaker D: go, wanna come live here?
[00:30:48] Speaker B: And then our house price will go up.
[00:30:50] Speaker G: Gal.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: So what we waiting on?
[00:30:52] Speaker B: What's the number?
[00:30:52] Speaker A: If you see something, say something. Let us all pitch in and stop the crime before it's your time. Call 328-8477 from Nassau or 242-300847 or text us through the crack crime Bahamas app. Stop the crime before it's your time.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Budgeting and saving, yes, investing check. But what if you could do more? With an RF brokerage account, you can get priority access to local investment opportunities right as they come to the market. Never miss a bond or new share offering again. Plus, you can house all your investments in one place and benefit from expert investment advice. Contact us at
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Love the show. Want to give your support? Become a sponsor today. Call 302-2300 for our rates and packages. That's 302-2300. Become a sponsor on Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM. Fresh News Smart.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: This is 6.9 FM. Fresh News Smart Talk all day.
[00:32:11] Speaker C: And we're back here on Guardian Radio today with Your host, Foster, Dr. Cleveland W. Eneas III, also known as Calhoun Anku. Sara, how you getting the Bahamas? I should be trying to figure out. I got special guests in here. Brent Wong Luby George, John Quad ii, Christopher Davis, and of course Professor Tinker is online.
Let me tell you, this type of show, we obviously won't get through it in this sitting. That's why we always want to have these type of conversations continuously. Right now it's a monthly show, but you know, it could develop into a weekly show very quickly because there's a lot of information that, that we want to share. Let me just go to the text lines just quickly so that I could get some of these. Maybe we'll go to the phone line. Please let your guests know that. Please let your guests know that his vast knowledge of history does not trump the English language and the ability to coin or create terms such as organic Bahamian in comparison. Ask him if foundational Black American or Haitian of origin are also erroneous. I don't know which guess. Yeah, you, you were speaking.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: He's speaking to me.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: I love dancing.
[00:33:20] Speaker H: Yeah.
[00:33:21] Speaker A: So foundational Black American is something completely different than how this garbage juice called organic Bahamian does. Right. So foundational Black American Black is your color. Now, when you're talking organic, you're talking about something to do with the biology of something. Am I correct?
[00:33:40] Speaker H: Okay.
[00:33:40] Speaker G: Okay.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: So I think right there are kind of simply explains it, you know what I mean? The vast knowledge of history. I don't. I actually don't have a vast knowledge history. Anyone who does have a basic knowledge of history just know that you only know a little bit in your own little corner and in your own little section, you know. But I could see where the person coming from and I would just respond to them to actually define what an organic behemoth is. Because a foundational black American they still, you know, holding on to this blackness. And it's actually about political solidarity, though I don't. I don't agree with some of the xenophobia that creeps into that as well and anti Africanness, but that's not reflective of the entire movement. Just as Anku would probably agree against some fellows who's calling themselves Coptic prophet, big uncle on the yacht, no training, no nothing, you know, so it's very similar to that, you know, so that's what I would challenge them to do this. Let's just define what an organic behavior is. And until then I'll continue to call it completely erroneous and even stupid.
[00:34:44] Speaker F: They've tried to. I don't want to get too much into it. I think they've tried to explain and help us to understand what an organic behavior is. But I always end up with, you know, more questions when they try to explain it. Because my main question is always how far back are we calling?
[00:35:05] Speaker A: Like, where do we stop? Exactly.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: Exactly where do we stop?
[00:35:07] Speaker F: Oh, you know, because you're saying if your mommy and your daddy and. And your grammy and your granddaddy. I'm like, okay, so let's keep going then.
[00:35:16] Speaker C: Well, I think you even. It was. What's even more important is you're starting in 1973.
[00:35:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Speaker E: Right.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: And a lot of people don't realize
[00:35:22] Speaker H: that
[00:35:25] Speaker C: you want to reference your grammy
[00:35:27] Speaker F: who was born in 1940.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: So she wasn't behemoth. No to British subject. Right, exactly.
[00:35:31] Speaker G: So that's.
[00:35:32] Speaker C: That's where the argument starts.
Yeah.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: Even basic genetics, you know, basic DNA, you know, And I have to explain, you know, and of course, I like to use your family. Of course. An example. Brittanini is coming over. We know that wasn't his real name.
[00:35:46] Speaker G: Right.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: But that only represents one line.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: It's extremely powerful that your ancestors are able to document and keep that and all behemoth. Now use your family story for solidarity with the Yoruba people.
[00:35:59] Speaker C: You understand?
[00:35:59] Speaker A: We know That's a part of who we are. But at the end of the day, you get two parents.
[00:36:04] Speaker E: Right.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Four grandparents.
[00:36:05] Speaker H: Right.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: Eight great grandparents. So by the time as you reach six generations back, you're talking about 128 people.
[00:36:11] Speaker E: Right.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: That came together to make you.
So you can't say, well, I understand it from slaves.
[00:36:17] Speaker H: Right.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Or I understand it from like we are literally. You know, and that's one of the beauties of nuance because it actually shows you how. How close we are and how interconnected.
[00:36:27] Speaker C: And that's. And that's why I want to do these type of shows, because I feel that we are in many ways the same people responding differently to the same oppression.
[00:36:35] Speaker H: Yes.
[00:36:36] Speaker C: You know, and. And so that's why I think these conversations are important. Anyway, let's get to the phone lines. It's lit up. Calling you live.
[00:36:43] Speaker E: Thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. First of all, appreciate the situation about the indenture labor versus who came to this region and the indigenous people who were the Lucan to Amerindian, the Caribbean, the Arawaks and all those. They were also here. But I like that last point that you made about going back to the grandparents that show that we ought to have respect for everyone.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:37:14] Speaker E: I'm wondering if you paying attention to what's happening in South Africa right now.
[00:37:18] Speaker A: I just talk about that off air. And we behave next. And to learn from that. I tell you, we need to learn.
[00:37:24] Speaker C: But explain when he comes off. We could explain.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker E: They actually. The place that.
That survive apartheid.
[00:37:32] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:37:34] Speaker E: That also in. In my opinion, I'm. I'm in agreement with them acting to end the genocide in. In. In. In Gaza.
[00:37:41] Speaker H: Right.
[00:37:42] Speaker E: But what is being done right now is also for political game since election.
Local government election is coming up.
And this similar thing happened in Ghana, I think it was. No. With Nigeria some 40, 50 years ago.
[00:37:59] Speaker G: Right.
[00:38:00] Speaker E: So the world is cycle and we ought to learn from them and also avoid the pitfalls.
[00:38:09] Speaker C: Yes, I agree. Thank you so much.
[00:38:10] Speaker E: Sorry. Last but not least, I have a question for Luby. I want to. A proposal. I'd like for Luby to assist in teaching and sharing Creole among the masses, among us all so that we can relate. Because it's good to be bilingual and multilingual.
If you go to Suriname, 25 languages. Suriname.
Are you from the sign on the street in Spanish and in English.
And you hear right now announcing Garden radio that there is a Houston bolt stadium in Barbados.
[00:38:46] Speaker H: Right.
Wow.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've been promoting. It's a youth like Global youth track and field event.
[00:38:53] Speaker C: That's powerful. Wow, wow, wow, wow.
Caller, the Dr. Dingo was asking where your accent is from.
[00:39:02] Speaker E: I'm a mix. I got a tight tongue, a lift. But I was conceived between that and Tobago.
I studied in Jamaica, my stepmother from Antigua.
[00:39:19] Speaker G: What's your take on how the Indians and the Africans interact when it comes to the indentured servitude position in Trinidad?
[00:39:28] Speaker E: Yeah, I am actually right before you say that. I'm proud to be a BMAN as well. But let's go, let's back up, man.
[00:39:34] Speaker G: You got a lot of titles.
[00:39:37] Speaker E: The Indians in Trinidad. They have actually integrated more in Trinidad than in Guyana.
I grew up in Guyana even though I didn't live in Trinidad because there was a different situation.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: My mother's from Trinidad, by the way.
[00:39:53] Speaker E: I was in Trinidad just twice in November last year and also in March this year.
And as I said, they do well together.
But what the Indians have done and what the black are doing, you can't always blame others.
My grandfather lived in Pasadena, California. Dr. Bowling bought all kind of plantation in Guyana. And we black people fight with each other and end up selling it to the Indians. Just because the Europeans sold the lines of the Indians.
We don't know the use of land. And when we sold out all my family sold out all, most of the land to the Indians. The Indian gave them the land. By the, by the way the bank and the river is eroding the land. And the Indian smartly took the land, the inside land.
And so it, we gotta, we gotta, sometimes we gotta blame ourselves. But I think we're getting over it, hopefully. And I'm, I'm all for unity.
[00:40:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I appreciate, yeah, I appreciate the call, man. Thank you so much. That's what's important. So brother Wong, Brent, you know, you, you, you, you brought the red book. And I want people to just, I really want people to appreciate you bringing this, this, this red book here and when, when you utilize it. Right.
How are you utilizing the red book? And what is, what is it edifying or what, what is the rationale? Or, you know, just you, you sought after this book. So I want to, I really want people to understand why this book is important to you and how you use it.
[00:41:24] Speaker H: Okay.
[00:41:25] Speaker G: Is there a dragon on that red book?
No.
What.
[00:41:31] Speaker C: I'll hold it up.
But yeah, explain why this book is important. Because, you know, I think if people really, really appreciated the fact that, you know, you have the ability to trace your lineage for generations and what it does for you, I Think they'd be very, very, very appreciative of what the book means. So just explain how you use the book and why it's important to you.
[00:42:05] Speaker D: All right, so for starters, I realized that even if you have, let's just say, five siblings, any one of us who have one or more siblings.
Oh, you did not have the same parents growing up.
[00:42:20] Speaker C: Say it again.
[00:42:23] Speaker D: You have a different set of parents than your siblings had grown up.
Y' all could grow up in the same house. They could both be your parents.
[00:42:31] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:42:31] Speaker D: Both same mother and father. You did not get the same version of them.
[00:42:34] Speaker E: Parents.
[00:42:35] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:42:36] Speaker D: As your siblings are.
[00:42:37] Speaker H: That's true.
[00:42:37] Speaker D: That's why there's a whole soft. Yeah, yeah. Right, right.
[00:42:43] Speaker G: So he could stay up.
[00:42:44] Speaker C: I couldn't stay up.
[00:42:45] Speaker H: You're right.
[00:42:46] Speaker D: Right, right. This thing got no bad time.
[00:42:49] Speaker H: Right.
[00:42:50] Speaker G: You.
[00:42:50] Speaker I: You got soften your.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: You don't do nothing.
[00:42:53] Speaker D: They don't even know what beating is.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: They don't know what tyrant you is.
[00:42:55] Speaker G: Right.
[00:42:56] Speaker D: You used to be a jail. T would be right.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: So here's.
[00:43:00] Speaker D: Here's why I'm saying that. I'm saying that because any one memory you had, you have. You have an individual memory of everything that you experience in life, but you also have shared memories. The shared memories is what you call culture.
[00:43:13] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:43:14] Speaker D: Right. Shared memories. What you call culture, when you have culture across generations, is now history.
Right. Your history could be a national history, it could be an indigenous history, it could be a heritage history.
Because what happens to you, you now starting to. We could agree on these things.
[00:43:33] Speaker C: Right, Right.
[00:43:34] Speaker H: Right.
[00:43:34] Speaker D: So, like, one of the things that I realized we agree on here is.
And I'm glad that we having this discussion here, and we pointed this out, the nationality of Bahamian started 1973.
[00:43:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:45] Speaker D: Before that, we were a British overseas territory, better known as a colony.
[00:43:49] Speaker C: Yes.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's.
That's. That's so important.
[00:43:56] Speaker E: Right.
[00:43:57] Speaker C: Write that on the wall.
[00:43:58] Speaker D: Right. So Bahamian is a nationality, right. Because we agree on foods, music, some things that happened since then, that's now called cultural history.
Cultural heritage based on nationality for this particular geographical area we call the Bahamas.
Why I wanted this is because I couldn't get enough consensus for the Chinese to migrate and settle in the Bahamas.
[00:44:25] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:44:26] Speaker D: So, okay, since I got.
[00:44:27] Speaker C: What are you getting when you go to them? When you. When you go to the Chinese who migrated to the Bahamas, are you getting Hitting walls?
[00:44:34] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Dry eye. Why you want to know?
[00:44:37] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:44:39] Speaker D: How would you respond to an ancestor if you ask Them questions and you go, why you want to know?
[00:44:43] Speaker C: Because I don't know me.
[00:44:45] Speaker D: Right?
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:46] Speaker F: Okay.
[00:44:46] Speaker C: I want to know me.
[00:44:47] Speaker D: That's the first one, right?
[00:44:48] Speaker G: Yes.
[00:44:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:50] Speaker D: But I. I could pretty much say a lot of us will feel the response of why you won't know before we think about it. We will never thought first. We'll have a feeling first.
[00:44:58] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes. That'll cut deep.
[00:45:00] Speaker G: You.
[00:45:00] Speaker E: Right.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: Why are you denying you can't verbalize it all the time?
[00:45:03] Speaker D: Yeah, right. Sometimes people don't have the words right away.
[00:45:05] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
[00:45:07] Speaker G: Right.
[00:45:08] Speaker D: So I was like, okay, well, here's the thing. Even if I do get some answers, because I did it this like 27 years to put things in perspective.
I've lived Fort Finn Castle, sorry, Fort Charlotte, Fort Fink, Soldier Road north, which is just south of Dan Norwich. Most people count that village estates, if you know it.
So Dan Nottage is the north end of Soldier Road. Dennis Village Estates, then literally Woodlawn is immediate.
[00:45:37] Speaker H: Right.
[00:45:38] Speaker D: I now live in the south.
[00:45:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:45:41] Speaker E: Right.
[00:45:42] Speaker D: Now somebody says, what's the importance of that? If you listen to all those areas, there's a certain set of people that are gathered primarily in those areas.
[00:45:50] Speaker A: Yes, certainly.
[00:45:52] Speaker D: That's my cultural experience.
I came to learn about my Chinese heritage and culture at 17 years old.
[00:46:01] Speaker H: Wow.
[00:46:03] Speaker D: Wow, that's a lot to process.
Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the coming of age. Right. Of passage for a lot of us.
[00:46:09] Speaker B: Right?
[00:46:09] Speaker G: Yes.
[00:46:10] Speaker D: So everything had to learn from scratch. So if I asking you first, I get in your first hand take.
If I hit the roadblock there, I can go ask other people who ain't afraid to share, because I wasn't only asking my father's parents and siblings. I think I was asking everybody in the community.
And I realized there was this common response for some people that wasn't your history.
So you ain't got a business asking that question.
You kind of like could pick it.
[00:46:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:42] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, certainly.
[00:46:43] Speaker C: You could imply it was implied. Yeah.
[00:46:45] Speaker D: You could pick it up.
[00:46:46] Speaker A: You weren't supposed to notice. Yeah, yeah, Correct.
[00:46:48] Speaker D: And then when you start to realize why some of them did that is because, again, some. A lot of that was marked by trauma.
[00:46:55] Speaker H: Right.
[00:46:55] Speaker D: They didn't move here because they wanted to.
[00:46:57] Speaker C: Yeah, okay.
[00:47:00] Speaker H: Right.
[00:47:00] Speaker D: So I said, okay, good. I ain't gonna press you why everybody did not have the same experience of that migration pattern.
Okay, cool, no problem. Let me go find what my cousins did. And when I say cousins using the same reference, if we actually trace back the Common grandparents and you, the further up you go, the closer connected you, you really realize you are.
[00:47:21] Speaker E: Yeah. Yes.
[00:47:22] Speaker D: So what this did was this caused me to recognize that if you are a Chinese in the Bahamas or in the Caribbean, I automatically call you cousin. Why?
[00:47:32] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:47:32] Speaker D: Them people didn't root from here.
You migrate here.
So at minimum we have that in common.
[00:47:41] Speaker C: Right, Right.
[00:47:42] Speaker D: And if you, if you black in Chinese, you cousin, cousin.
And one of the things that's been more important in the last year, year and a half is the concept we'll all be familiar with because we all have different levels of exposure with business code switching.
[00:48:00] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:48:02] Speaker D: You code switch to preserve your own natural culture and tongue and history, but you transfer to something that they would officially call a lingua franca, a language of exchange.
[00:48:15] Speaker C: Yes, yes.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Yeah. You see, in West Africa where they have, you go to Ghana, Nigeria, they have pigeon. And it's the same here we are gulagichi, I guess you could say.
And it's not that we trying to quote, unquote, speak good for white people, but it's just about speaking, understanding.
[00:48:32] Speaker D: Right.
[00:48:33] Speaker C: You know?
[00:48:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:34] Speaker G: Wow.
[00:48:34] Speaker C: We're, we're hard on the, on the news break. Professor Tinker, I appreciate you joining and you have anything before we go off to the, to the news?
[00:48:42] Speaker G: No, man, listen, it sounds good. I'm jumping on my interview now, but you guys definitely saying some good stuff. So hopefully we have more time to pick this up another day.
[00:48:50] Speaker C: Jackie, what's up? I sent you a picture of that book so you can see what's going on.
[00:48:53] Speaker G: All right. You got the dragon on it?
[00:48:54] Speaker C: No.
All right, we're gonna run through the news and pay some bills here on Guardian Radio today. How, how you reach here in the Bahamas. That's what we oxen boat. And we can continue to ask this question because I think a lot of people don't really ask the question or, or, or they meet walls as, as Bren is saying.
And but he, he, he, he jump over them walls or go around him or dig under him to get some more answers. So that's something that we all have to do. Call as I do apologize. We're going to get to you right after the break.
But again, keep it locked here. 96.9 fresh new smart.
[00:49:54] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio, your station for up to the minute news and intelligent, interactive and engaging conversations.
96.9 FM.
[00:50:21] Speaker C: Back here on Guardian Radio today.
Listen how you get here in the Bahamas. I mean, listen, this, this conversation.
I gotta say that.
So yes, I am an enius. My Mother is a hana, right?
And oftentimes people will say, well, why you only talk about the Aeneas side of your family? Or you don't speak about the Hana side as much. And let me just explain from my perspective, when I say Aeneas, what I mean, My mother took on the name Aeneas.
So when I say Aeneas, I am thinking about my mother, even though the hana side is not hearing hana, which is why I'm explaining this. I am talking about my mother. My mother today, all of her documents, even though she and my father divorced and she's remarried, her document is still an Enius, you understand? If she going away, she put an Enius on her luggage because she got passport in.
Similar to what Brandt was saying in the Hana. Hasty times in that family, when you try to get things done with regard to questioning, you meet waltz, right? Not a heinous family. My granddaddy, he wrote books, right? So I dealing with what I dealing with who. Who left information first. Then I gotta go deal with the Hana Haiti dying situation because there's a lot of records that are kept and there's a beautiful family reunion that we're having now on a regular basis. And I pray that what comes out of it is more understanding. But the reality of the situation is, hey, there's a lot of walls there, you understand? So I just wanted to put that out there.
I love my Hana blood, you understand?
I'm always referencing my mother, even if I say Ennis, but she was. My daddy didn't take on her. My mommy took on Ennis. You understand?
Let's go to the phone lines right quick. And then I got a zillion texts. I can try to screen through them and get to them. Call you life.
[00:52:29] Speaker E: Good day to all.
[00:52:30] Speaker C: Hey, how you doing, man? Thanks. Thanks for holding.
[00:52:33] Speaker E: If I say anything here sounds strange, blame uncool. That's my teacher.
[00:52:39] Speaker C: Okay, go ahead.
[00:52:41] Speaker E: I'm a poor African descendant born in the Bahamas, Okay.
[00:52:47] Speaker I: However, Haiti history is interesting.
[00:52:50] Speaker E: In 1807, Henry Crystal Fee declared himself king of the north of North Haiti.
On 7-1-26, I'm declaring myself Prince of the. I am.
That I am.
[00:53:08] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:53:09] Speaker E: Because my last name is Williams, I will be known as Prince William from now on.
[00:53:18] Speaker H: Okay?
[00:53:19] Speaker E: This declaration today, the first page of my book, Prince in the Bahamas.
By the way, it'll be my favorite. And you guys have a good day, all right?
[00:53:34] Speaker C: So I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Prince. Prince William. That's. That's who just called. Let's go back to the phone lines. Call you Live.
Go ahead, caller.
[00:53:43] Speaker I: Hello?
[00:53:44] Speaker C: Yes, I'm listening. We're listening you live.
[00:53:46] Speaker I: Hi, Doc. How you doing, Sparky?
[00:53:48] Speaker C: Hey, Spocky, thanks for calling, man.
[00:53:50] Speaker I: Thanks and thank you.
[00:53:52] Speaker E: Yes, sir.
[00:53:53] Speaker I: Thank you. Producer man. You know, he had to know I was on and he come to me and say, I got you next.
[00:53:58] Speaker C: Yeah, man, you know, I, we communicating, but it's just a lot going on. So I appreciate you holding.
[00:54:03] Speaker I: Yeah, I could tell from the conversations and a lot it can be done today.
[00:54:06] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:54:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:54:07] Speaker I: And thanks for all your guests with you. But, you know, I've been, I'm 75 and I, I seem to be. To me, I feel like I was the only one in the family researching my family.
On my mother's side, her name is Gwendolyn Mercedes Joy means a Pinda. He died from cancer. And then she married my father, Jean Fountain. So that's Fountain on my father's side, but she was a mans. But her mother was a depute.
And depute is actually French, which is Dupre.
Now Ida depute. My grandmother was sister to Leon the Puge and Leon Dupch at Ida. But they started the Nassau tribute back in 1906.
Okay. And he died in 1913 somewhere around there. Well, that's when Tribune opened.
Now, on my father's side is Fountain, which is also French, and that's Fountain.
They lived on West Street Hills. And my grandfather was Harold Jackson Fountain. He died when I was 4 years old in 55.
Now I've been trying to follow with my Fountains Come from.
And I know the fountains. They have fountains down in Texas. Fountain family own actually a yacht and a boat building company.
And when we saw those races in the harbor, a guy, Mr. Fountain, used to even come over here with a fountain helicopter. So that's the Fountains from Texas somewhere. There's also fountains up in New York.
And then there's the place France.
And my cousin Eric Mintz, who wrote the Fox Hill Gal, his mother was Esther Mintz. They used to call her Esther Tech. My. My mother's older sister was Esther Tech. Esther Mint, that's the Fox Hill Gal. Now, I've been trying to find out, but when you go so far with your uncles, I don't know if they're ashamed to say there's also Fountain Mountains that came from Haiti.
Now, I don't know because they seem to be either ashamed to say where they come from because, you know, it was a bad thing once time ago to say he came from Haiti. But there's a lot of people during the time. And a lot of Haitians used to come to the Bahamas, even right in our harbor, Prince George Dock, Bahamas. And a lot of them started staying in the Bahamas back then. And then a lot of Haitians went to Abaco when the keys. Mr. Kem had farming up in Abaco and he used a lot of Haitians up at Abaco. That's why the Haitians Abaco says more us here than yours because all up in Haiti called the mud and everything up in Abaco. I think there's more Haitians in Abaco than Amiconians.
So we all mix up. But a lot of people are ashamed to find out where they come from.
Red is black and white. But you ever notice when you hear black and white, there's only two colors that they call black and white starred by the white man.
Everybody else is called by their country. Chinese, Japanese, you don't call them yellow. Filipinos, Indians, Mexicans, Peruan, Brazilians, Chileans and stuff. The only two colors they call in human being life is black and white. That's Africans, Europeans and Englishmen. Like you say, the English governed the world one time ago.
[00:57:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:34] Speaker I: And then a lot of the English and Irish left in England and ran to America where they met the English, the American Indians.
They took the Indians land and they sent up on them, some of them all the way up into up and up into bay with a record of Eskimos.
If you look at the Eskimos and American Indians, they basically nearly look the same.
And they pushed the Indians pull it away the west up in the mountains and put them on what they call reservations.
And then the whites took over America and they used the blacks as slaves and the Chinese to help them build America. Now the white people in America tried to sell everybody get out of America.
[00:58:22] Speaker C: Thank you so much, Baki. Yes, we won't go that far today. We try to just. We trying to clear up this situation.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: But.
[00:58:30] Speaker C: But go ahead, Chris.
[00:58:30] Speaker A: So I have a comment. Yeah. So as far as I understand, the fountain name is I. I would classify with the name Devo and also Poitier. And so there's sometimes an assumption that because the name is a French origin, that it must have been a relationship with Saint Domingue or Haiti, which 90% of the time is the case. But I've often heard people say that the fountain name, the Poitier name and the Devoe name come from Haiti in the bombers, which they actually don't. So. Yeah, so they are actually what they call French Huguenot names. So Devoe used To be two words. And you will even see it in old records spelled D E. And then they love DeVoe separate.
[00:59:10] Speaker F: Right.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: So that's the Colonel Andrew DeVoe. And people assume that he was from Haiti, but he was here from the early 1780s, before the Revolution even started. You had some migration even before that. So I hope Sparky's still listening, but I. And I want him to check that. But I do believe that Fountain was. Is a French name. He's correct in that, but it's a Hugo nut name. He also mentioned the Mins. So the men's one is one that we could pinpoint with a hammer. Every single mins in the Bahamas is descended from an indentured baker by the name of John Mintz who snuck on a boat and came here, but more importantly, a Congolese princess to describe her in modern terms. But she was, we believe, of the Bakongo people. And she was a young lady who was also on this boat with John Mintz. And the boat began to sink about a mile and a half off the shore off the coast of New Province, ashore, whatever you want to call it. And what she did was she actually tied this man to a mattress head and fasten a tee, holding the rope with a tee. Swim this man there and save his life.
Now shout out to Charlotte Henny, who's actually descended from this family line as well. And me and her were doing a lot of research on. On Rosette Mint, which is the name of the woman years back. So every single Mint. The dark, dark, dark black ones.
[01:00:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:00:28] Speaker A: And the light ones. And the white set.
[01:00:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:00:30] Speaker A: All descended from that. And when you look at their line, it's actually quite so the first black British man history was their grandson. You know, I mean, one of the first black ordained ministers, Samuel Mintz, was one of their sons. The ones that come out a little dark. It's funny, your race, workers, they tended to be a little more, let's say, cool. They use young people there. And you had people like John Mintz who come out looking white, white, white, went to Inagua, live as a white man, owned the same slave plantation. And then it was his son who became the first mayor of African descent in British history. And then his son became the first person of African descent. I can't remember what the. But he won a medal of honor or the equivalent on the British side in World War I and then died tragically. So these families are very important. And again, it shows you about this migration. And what's so funny is everyone is migrate for almost exactly the same reasons.
A better life, resources. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. You know, I did a course, I love to Shout this Educator out by DSC Moore right there at ub, where we were doing a course on heritage tourism.
And she pretty much showed you. Proportionately, the numbers were varied, but essentially, overall, the numbers of behemoths that are living under the radar in America.
[01:01:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:01:51] Speaker A: Proportionately. Is far greater than the proportion of Haitian migrants in the Bahamas.
[01:01:57] Speaker H: Right.
[01:01:57] Speaker A: So you talk about a country of boat.
12 million people.
[01:02:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:02:02] Speaker I: And.
[01:02:02] Speaker A: And as you said, the numbers said something like. I think you said 60,000 or something like that.
[01:02:06] Speaker H: Yeah, yeah.
[01:02:07] Speaker A: Which is a tiny portion of the population. But how many Bahamians living in America? Tens of thousands.
[01:02:14] Speaker E: Right.
[01:02:15] Speaker A: You ready? Man up. I would say it's close to 20. You understand? So the Haitian diaspora, there's only a tiny, tiny percentage that actually even lives in the Bahamas.
[01:02:25] Speaker G: Right.
[01:02:26] Speaker A: And that's where you have this. This kind of foggy line between a genuine concern for migratory movements and who is coming in, who is coming out. Scarcity of resources and straight up xenophobia.
[01:02:38] Speaker C: Right. As a biologist, we learn about seven characteristics of living things. One of them is irritability. So if a plant is not getting the amount of sun it needs, it's gonna move.
[01:02:51] Speaker E: Right, Right. You understand?
[01:02:52] Speaker C: People are the same way. If you don't get resources in here, we gotta go over here.
[01:02:56] Speaker E: Right.
[01:02:56] Speaker C: So you're right. Yeah. Let's go back to the phone lines. Call your life.
[01:02:59] Speaker H: Yes, sir.
[01:03:00] Speaker E: Good day.
[01:03:00] Speaker C: Hey, thanks for calling.
[01:03:02] Speaker H: You know, when we talk about when we look in some of us like we look at migration.
[01:03:08] Speaker E: Right.
[01:03:08] Speaker H: That's good.
Or positive.
You know, people come migrate free. I mean, not free, but on their free will, at their free will. But then those. For those who are forced to migrate, I mean, to slavery.
[01:03:28] Speaker E: Yeah, right.
[01:03:29] Speaker H: Those people, you know, I see them as people who are more entitled to those who migrate. Right.
Under free will. You understand me?
When we talk about the nation of the Bahamas, we want to talk about it like you guys talk about 73. What about the Chinese? When we talk about the Chinese nation, You understand what I'm saying? We don't say us. It's the Chinese. And even how long were they Chinese?
The nation, you understand?
[01:04:09] Speaker C: That's why we got. We got Brent Young here today. Maybe I won here today to share
[01:04:13] Speaker H: some history, but I'm saying he didn't come here by force. He came here. At least I wouldn't think.
Ancestors, same as my ancestors. Yeah, they came, they went they was forced in the dates and Caicos. They came to the Bahamas at their own free will.
[01:04:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:04:27] Speaker H: So they should not get and be entitled to those behemoth who came here.
[01:04:32] Speaker A: I mean, let me get.
[01:04:34] Speaker C: Let me hear you properly. You're saying if you. And I was looking up the word, the difference between immigrate and immigrate, Right.
[01:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a difference.
[01:04:41] Speaker C: Here's the difference. Yeah, this is important.
So those who emigrated, you're saying they shouldn't have as much rights as the ones who immigrated. The ones who actually were forced.
[01:04:50] Speaker H: Who came. Yes. As slaves of.
Against their free will.
[01:04:56] Speaker E: Right. Okay.
[01:04:57] Speaker H: So we don't have to.
[01:04:58] Speaker E: To.
[01:04:58] Speaker H: You know what I mean?
Immigration, you know.
[01:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:03] Speaker C: Thank you so much.
[01:05:04] Speaker H: Okay, let's make it a different angle, right? You have your families fighting, siblings fighting.
Right. You have nations fighting.
You understand me? Racist fighting. Other races, religions, religious people fighting other religions. See, migration. That's why I would say that migration is a problem.
It creates a problem.
[01:05:28] Speaker A: Yeah, we see. Remember though, migration. See, you. You even just deciphered between you. You know, migration is a complex thing.
[01:05:37] Speaker F: Yeah, very complex.
[01:05:38] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:05:39] Speaker A: Like you say, like Richie off. I don't know if you said it was your father, your grandfather, who of course came as an enslaved African the Turk island, and then he willingly came to the Bahamas.
[01:05:49] Speaker H: Right.
[01:05:49] Speaker A: Now, now let me paint another picture. You might be familiar with what's going on in Nigeria where I drop them and lie and say it's some type of Christian genocide. Sometimes migration is just a fact of human existence. So currently the Sahara desert is actually growing. So they can just make you think like these Africans just crazy and just fighting and, you know, but it's actually a legitimate scarcity of resources.
And the conflicts in Nigeria are more so between Islamic extremists and over water resources, river resources, arable land. That is what a lot of that fighting is over. And as a matter of fact, the Muslim extremists have killed more moderate Muslims like 10 times over than they have Christians just because of proximity. Because the Muslims living in the north, the extremist ones up there. And then you have. So it's all these complex issues.
[01:06:38] Speaker H: People, People are fighting.
[01:06:39] Speaker A: So when those Fulanis and. And those houses from the north, who most of whom are Islamic as well, move into Igbo territory more in the. In the center or anything like that, you know, it creates these conflicts.
[01:06:52] Speaker H: Right.
[01:06:53] Speaker A: But also it's another thing with migration. So let's say tomorrow, you know, they hear Anku on the radio, you boy them from what 97 New York call Anko and say, let's say we can pay you $2 million a month to run with B gas.
[01:07:05] Speaker G: Right.
[01:07:06] Speaker A: You know, all of a sudden we aunkle no more.
Six months later we just see uncle come back the. No, the ring heaven. You know, he get 110 ring and he knows solid diamond. So I had about migration. But of course I understand where you're coming from too. And with this complex history, I think that people of African descent, particularly when you look at what the previous call mentioned, the situation in Guyana, we've seen some of the videos. I come from a very diverse family myself and in Trinidad. And so I have first cousins.
[01:07:42] Speaker H: Right. So. So you should see that. And look at the situation in Trinidad. You have the Trinidad came as indentured servants. Right. And they, they, they, they are, they are what you call. And they are they above the African slaves. And they still are nation people fighting amongst themselves. Just people from another nation coming in and migrating.
[01:08:05] Speaker G: That's the problem.
[01:08:06] Speaker A: To counter what you also said, right.
Some migration is. I say it's more complex. I don't think it's a. It's an odd or multi level because
[01:08:16] Speaker H: we are a melting point in the Bahamas, we feel it like that.
[01:08:19] Speaker A: So even to give one more.
[01:08:21] Speaker C: Thanks, Guela, appreciate it.
[01:08:22] Speaker F: We could use the Bahamas as an example.
[01:08:24] Speaker A: But when you look at. Let's look at ourselves.
[01:08:26] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[01:08:27] Speaker A: When you look at an ancient civilization in modern Qatar, one of the richest nations on Earth, most of their citizen, most of the people living in their country are not citizens of Qatar and are not Qatari, only about 20%.
[01:08:40] Speaker E: Okay.
[01:08:41] Speaker A: Now if you want to take it back to our people, let's talk about the kingdom of Mali, Okay. Which was an Islamic kingdom and as you know, Ankuya, the Dogon Yad.
[01:08:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:08:48] Speaker A: You had all these different divers, diverse groups living in Mapam Googwe, in Zimbabwe, you know, so migration was always. And, and for me, you know, different nations take a different thing. I remember when I was in Ghana and this is of course during the great struggles of the great Ibrahim Chiori. But within that you have a lot of migration coming out of Burkina Faso. And it was a. It was literally an entire village that was almost wiped out. And there were all of These survivors, like 70% of whom were women and children.
[01:09:17] Speaker E: Right.
[01:09:17] Speaker A: And you know what happened, man, you had villages scrambling.
[01:09:20] Speaker G: Wow.
[01:09:21] Speaker A: For these people to come in their village.
[01:09:23] Speaker G: Right.
[01:09:24] Speaker D: You understand?
[01:09:25] Speaker A: Especially with all them women. Right, right. So it's, it's weird how the Bahamas, South Africa you know, Trinidad, it seems like there's this similarities, right?
[01:09:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:09:38] Speaker A: And you know, we have this term bohemian apartheid. And so when you look at the similar demographics, the similar historic dynamics, and it's a fair thing too because look at the bombers. Where are we? We not a hu. Cuba and Haiti. Cuba had there, which is of course linked to race, but a so more socialist class revolution. Haiti did the worst and freed themselves and been paying for it for over 200 years. We don't even need to get into all of that.
[01:10:01] Speaker C: Right.
[01:10:01] Speaker A: Then you have the United States where blacks are the minority and they were being lynched and all these things still happening to this day in various forms. And here we are, this little country with a few thousand people in the middle, you know, so it's almost a fair thing.
It is, it is a genuine fair.
[01:10:17] Speaker C: But we live on the highway. We literally live on the highway, some from south to north.
[01:10:22] Speaker A: And you have seen it in our historical narratives in school. Oh well, you know, slavery wasn't so bad.
[01:10:27] Speaker C: Yeah, it was good slavery.
[01:10:30] Speaker A: Oh, we ain't like them Haitians and them Trinidadians.
[01:10:37] Speaker C: It tickled us.
[01:10:39] Speaker G: Right.
[01:10:39] Speaker A: You see, so and it's this, and it's this fear and you know, speaking with Pan Africanists, you know, again, it's always these complex things. It's not a one size one that's a fit all type of thing. When you look at the Mahmish from a Pan African perspective, you would look at a nation that's wealthy, the only independent. Well, that's another argument, but another one on that. But the only, let's say quasi to which independent country that is that that makes their own laws, that they are all as equal with the United States. You could come in and see the quality of living is better. I mean, we just spent all morning round over Portholes. That's the big issue.
[01:11:13] Speaker H: Right.
[01:11:15] Speaker A: I can tell you that, you know, we have a road, I telling you.
[01:11:18] Speaker E: Right.
[01:11:18] Speaker C: For the development.
[01:11:19] Speaker E: So.
[01:11:20] Speaker A: Right. But at the same time there's this feeling amongst people like us who are a little more socially conscious, Afrocentric leaning, that we've sort of sold a part of our soul to have this status within the African diaspora or the world, you know, And a part of that was just trying to understand, well, we the good black people.
[01:11:39] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:11:40] Speaker A: Like the other black people, you know, and that's a big all too savage.
[01:11:44] Speaker H: Right?
[01:11:44] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:11:45] Speaker C: But Luby, you were referencing the fact that we don't even have to go down the road. We could just focus right here all
[01:11:51] Speaker F: of what we were saying when you think about these scarcity as it pertains to resources.
[01:11:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:11:57] Speaker F: The most simplest of examples for me is right at home.
You look at Nassau being heavily populated.
[01:12:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:12:05] Speaker F: And the family of islands sparse.
[01:12:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:12:08] Speaker D: You understand.
[01:12:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:12:09] Speaker F: That's migration within itself. Persons are migrating from Abaco, the Exumas, the family violence to Nassau for a particular reason. There is a push factor on the family islands, and Nassau has the pull factor, and that's why you're coming here. And the same happens with, you know, persons. Even though even the executives that may be coming from the United States.
[01:12:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:12:31] Speaker F: Or Canada, there is something pulling them towards the Bahamas, just as there's something pulling that person from Cuba or Haiti or as far as China.
[01:12:40] Speaker H: Yes.
[01:12:41] Speaker F: To the Bahamas. So migration, while it may be complex, I think we overthink.
[01:12:47] Speaker C: We overthink it sometimes, and I. And that's why this is such an important conversation. So, Brent, with your Chinese, what did you. What have you found out? Were you all brought here? Did you choose to come here? I mean, what. What. What have you found?
[01:12:59] Speaker D: So chose to. Is the short summary.
My.
The paternal side. So my dad's.
My dad's father and grandfather came because they just had enough of the conditions that they was faced with at the time.
Very few people know about this little blip in history called the Japanese invasion of China.
[01:13:19] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:13:22] Speaker D: That's a big blip.
[01:13:25] Speaker F: Right, Right.
[01:13:25] Speaker D: But unless you're from there, Right. Or unless you connect to somebody who's acutely connected to that memory, Right. Remember the shared memory, then what happens is that means nothing new.
[01:13:34] Speaker E: Right.
[01:13:35] Speaker D: So what happens is only your pain matter to you.
And as far as they're concerned, what'd you come here for?
Right. And some of them would say, I
[01:13:44] Speaker C: know why I come here.
[01:13:44] Speaker A: Right, Right, right.
[01:13:45] Speaker C: What you come here for?
[01:13:46] Speaker D: What you come here for?
[01:13:47] Speaker C: The music Stop.
[01:13:50] Speaker H: Right.
[01:13:51] Speaker D: So what happens is they had a. There was a situation where there. This would most be recognizable to people who understand what the holocaust was, the genocide. So there was a point where they were.
Well, less rocks. Japanese invasion of China.
[01:14:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:14:07] Speaker D: There was a point where the people who had no intentions to get involved in this conflict, this was a situation where the conflict came to them.
[01:14:15] Speaker G: Right.
[01:14:18] Speaker D: To live, they had to flee where they own things, they had to flee with their own things. So they had to escape to some place where you ain't coming for them.
[01:14:27] Speaker E: Right.
[01:14:28] Speaker D: You could only survive so long when the natural resources you needed for quality of life start to run out, then your family start to die off.
So when the nurse. Opportunity for you to go as far because everybody think. But it's. So at some point when you're. The irritability kicked in.
When that irritability kicked in locally, you start thinking anywhere from here. But what happens is the human condition is if you, if you press me hard enough, I won't go. Listen good as far from here as I could get. Because obviously then people don't grade me as bad.
[01:15:02] Speaker E: Common.
[01:15:03] Speaker C: Right. I'd be a stranger in that line.
I could put on a new identity.
[01:15:07] Speaker D: You don't know me. To oppress me.
[01:15:09] Speaker C: You don't know me. To oppress me. Wow.
[01:15:11] Speaker E: Right.
[01:15:12] Speaker F: So that's powerful.
[01:15:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:15:14] Speaker D: So the concept of the slow boat from China.
[01:15:16] Speaker H: Yeah.
[01:15:17] Speaker D: Real, real story.
[01:15:18] Speaker A: People could Google things like.
So a lot of World War II and World War I documentary State now starting to really talk about what was going on in China.
[01:15:27] Speaker H: Right.
[01:15:28] Speaker A: And of course we, we acknowledge and sympathize heavily with the Ashkenazi Jewish holocaust. But when you talk in numbers.
[01:15:37] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:15:37] Speaker A: China, it's not, it's incomparable, you know.
[01:15:40] Speaker E: Right.
[01:15:40] Speaker A: And even during that period, you had more people died during that period than died in the middle passage in the transatlantic slave trade, you know, and, and then. Sorry to interject, but even with China, you know, you had the Germans there, you had the French there, you had the Dutch there, you had the British there, you had the Spanish there, you had the Portuguese there. Everyone, all these people, you know, the bombers only had to deal with the British for the most part. Little bit of French and Spanish and American imperialism here and there. But, you know, and again, those migrations, people, like you said, like, how is the con. Like people would say, oh, well, you know, we came here on our own and even the other call up, you know. But again, a lot of things are much short summary and.
Right.
[01:16:25] Speaker D: Chose. But it was because I needed safety,
[01:16:27] Speaker A: quality of life, you know, what's the alternative? Breath or starvation?
[01:16:31] Speaker F: So, yeah, how do you know?
How did the Haitians go there?
[01:16:36] Speaker I: Right.
[01:16:36] Speaker F: Similar story. You know, you talk about imperialism and invasion and genocide, but Haiti had its
[01:16:41] Speaker A: own version of that.
[01:16:43] Speaker F: You know, in 1915, great old USA came in, invaded Haiti and stayed there for somewhat 15 to 30 years.
[01:16:50] Speaker A: President Trujillo committed genocide. Right on the border. Right on the border.
[01:16:55] Speaker C: The Massacre River.
[01:16:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:16:56] Speaker C: And I think what fascinates me, and I know we won't get to it in this conversation, is when we began to really identify with the lines that were drawn. Because when you start going back far enough, you start seeing where we're really one family Right, right.
But we hold fast.
[01:17:18] Speaker I: Wow.
[01:17:18] Speaker C: The book of one family on it. A red book.
[01:17:21] Speaker E: Right.
[01:17:21] Speaker A: Little nice Bali boy.
[01:17:26] Speaker D: Now, the cousin's just saying, right.
[01:17:28] Speaker A: You know what? Stronger knowers. We got to get too much peace going on.
[01:17:36] Speaker C: But, but, but, but, you know, like another show that I know we like. Because a lot of these comments are about indentured servants versus chattel slavery. And we ain't gonna get into that today. But we could.
But, but, but you, you, you, you started out the show talking about this reality of, of geopolitical loyalty.
[01:17:59] Speaker E: Right.
[01:17:59] Speaker C: You know, and I think a lot of what we call identity is really that.
[01:18:03] Speaker A: Exactly. Right.
[01:18:04] Speaker C: Without us really understanding the substantive aspects of who we truly are.
[01:18:09] Speaker E: Right.
[01:18:10] Speaker H: Yeah.
[01:18:10] Speaker C: You know what I'm saying? But let's go to the phone lines here on Garden Radio today. Call you live.
[01:18:14] Speaker E: Hi, good afternoon.
[01:18:15] Speaker C: Hey, thanks for calling.
[01:18:17] Speaker E: Hey, great show. Great show.
[01:18:19] Speaker C: Thank you.
[01:18:20] Speaker E: I'm catching the show late, so I don't know.
[01:18:23] Speaker C: Well, we really, we just asking how you get here in the Bahamas. That's really.
That's kind of how you get you.
[01:18:31] Speaker E: Now, is there a person of Chinese descent?
[01:18:35] Speaker C: Yes. Yes.
[01:18:36] Speaker E: Okay, now here's a curveball I'm going to throw to the historian. Right.
I don't know if he's aware of it, but during the 50s and 60s, during the Papadoc era.
[01:18:50] Speaker A: Right, right.
[01:18:51] Speaker E: When the merchant class was
[01:18:56] Speaker I: expelled out of Haiti.
[01:18:57] Speaker E: Right, Right.
Many of those were Chinese.
[01:19:01] Speaker A: Right, Right.
[01:19:02] Speaker E: Who went to Haiti. Who went to Haiti and who was doing very well in Haiti as merchants. Right.
Many of those Chinese, they went to Haiti during the 20s and 30s and they had kids, and their kids were born in Haiti. Right. But during their expel, many of those
[01:19:24] Speaker I: kids and grandkids came to the Bahamas and opened up shop.
[01:19:30] Speaker E: Are you aware of those Chinese who came to the Bahamas who are still in the Bahamas?
[01:19:38] Speaker A: Well, I was aware, of course, a lot of those merchants of Chinese descent. It was a lot more political than that as well, because they labeled all Asians at the time as communists, essentially. Right.
And of course, by that time, Mao, the Mao revolution had already happened as well. And you have to remember, Papa Doc was supported.
[01:20:00] Speaker D: Let me know.
[01:20:01] Speaker A: Call too much letters, because I want my boy. I could get no trouble. But we know who Papa Doc was supported by during the Cold War, which is why such a brutal man could have retained power for so long.
[01:20:14] Speaker E: Right.
[01:20:14] Speaker A: Because he was promoting capitalism.
[01:20:16] Speaker E: Right.
[01:20:17] Speaker A: So now I'm not aware that Chinese actually came that way. I was more so aware of. This is the first time.
[01:20:25] Speaker C: Let me Ask me.
Did you hear anything? Regards to what?
[01:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah, no.
[01:20:31] Speaker D: And I was going to join the. Clarify.
[01:20:34] Speaker C: I just wanted to give you a chance in case.
[01:20:36] Speaker A: I. Digging notes.
[01:20:37] Speaker E: I.
[01:20:37] Speaker D: Taking notes.
[01:20:39] Speaker A: But it would.
[01:20:40] Speaker E: It would.
[01:20:40] Speaker A: It would certainly makes sense. And then you have to remember, too, particularly after slavery, late 1800s, early 1900s, we had an absolutely beautiful relationship of trade with Haiti. You could just check all the newspapers from that time period, look at all the shipping records from Haiti with rice and grits and all these different things.
And that actually increased as behemoths became more comfortable from like the 1920s. And then, of course, with era of Papa Doc and then the US invasions and all of these things.
Then it became a place where Haiti even struggled to feed themselves. And obviously when it's like that, the import, the exports decrease.
[01:21:20] Speaker H: Right.
[01:21:20] Speaker A: But we have to be careful, you know, And I will use a quote because, I don't know, I don't want to accuse the fella going in a certain direction, but just in case he's going in that direction, I use a quote by Stokely Carmichael, AKA Kwame Turing, though he was speaking about the Vietnam War, but I think it definitely applies to this conversation. And he essentially said to African Americans, who in America, when they was recruiting them to go to fight in the Vietnam War, he was like, man, ain't none of them Asians ever called me.
[01:21:50] Speaker C: That's right. That's right.
[01:21:51] Speaker A: You know what I mean?
And again, that's why I actually opened up with this sort of totem pole of racism and actually explaining that, you understand what I'm saying? And those of us in the middle and the bottom, we kind of shuffling and jostling for different positions on this. One of the most crucial examples to. To take it to another Asian sort of African relationship would be that with Gandhi. Even Martin Luther King himself used Gandhi as inspiration. And we now know. Yeah, yeah, two horrible things for Gandhi, racism. The other one is, yeah, just as horrible, if not worse. Yeah, we ain't getting to that, you know, But Gandhi was the man that called blacks in South Africa kafirs.
[01:22:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:22:31] Speaker A: He promoted Indians being over blacks and all of these things, which is something that he later, of course, expressed regret for. But he did do a lot of damage in South Africa, if we being quite honest. But at the end of the day, for me and y' all know, I have certain radical revolutionary sentiments, you know, and there are problems. Right. But we have to remember racism is something that came out of Western Europe and that culture, you understand? And that at the end of the day we all crabs in this barrel, certain people might be higher up on the barrel and all of these things. Right. And. But again, when you understand the actual situation in China, you know, there are many oppressed people, you know, this is no criticism, of course, of the present Chinese government or regime. I'm not doing that at all. As a matter of fact, it's a reason why many in the African diaspora are leaning more towards China. In the west right now, we have need to get into that either.
[01:23:27] Speaker F: Right.
[01:23:28] Speaker A: But at the end of the day, when you look at the relationship between Chinese and Africans, particularly even in the Caribbean, of course, we could speak. And even in America, we could pinpoint certain incidences. The most recent one, as we mentioned earlier, with the Korean shop owner killing a black guy. But at the end of the day, we all kind of in the same boat. The Chinese Asians did not perpetrate child slavery on that. And we don't want to get into the intentioned servant. But what Africans experience, that's another show. Yeah, right. You know, I don't see Chinese been very long. I. A guy who for fun, I scold enslaved registers. I don't think I've ever seen a. A Chinese national owning any plantation in the entire Caribbean, to my knowledge. And if it is, it's. It's minuscule, you know, but you add mulattos and others who you see. So again, it's complex and. And not to try to identify white people as the sole enemy of Africa. So we got to go chop them up.
[01:24:24] Speaker C: System of racism, white supremacy.
[01:24:26] Speaker A: Thank you.
Whites.
[01:24:29] Speaker C: A system.
[01:24:29] Speaker F: Right.
[01:24:30] Speaker A: See, so we have to be careful in branding and all that and worrying about who coming in and all that. And all of this enriches our culture.
[01:24:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:24:37] Speaker A: Because we eat fried rice. We go in West Africa commonalities here the Chinese is used sorry days called it bitter melon sarcy originates in China.
[01:24:46] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:24:46] Speaker A: And then became popular in Africa and then came to the bottom.
[01:24:50] Speaker C: You got some white. We got some white Americans who's admonished other white Americans. Listen while y' all eating this Mexican food, right?
[01:24:59] Speaker G: Yeah.
[01:24:59] Speaker C: I'll be hating the Mexican.
You know what I'm saying?
We're gonna run to a break here on God in Radio.
[01:25:09] Speaker E: Today.
[01:25:10] Speaker C: We asking the question, how you catching the bombers, man? Back after this.
[01:25:15] Speaker B: Oh, am I aware of myself in the midst Aware of vibrations our own die so I don't let the moment confound I am high.
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[01:26:07] Speaker A: It's the time again for the 31st
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[01:26:29] Speaker C: That's the Peace on the Streets Basketball
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[01:26:35] Speaker D: Game time change doesn't happen in sound bites. It happens when people come together and actually talk. The forum is that conversation where Bahamians from all walks of life work through the issues that affect us all, challenge each other and find solutions together. Every every Saturday, 11am to 1pm on Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM.
[01:26:56] Speaker A: The forum with Ricardo Welds.
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[01:28:02] Speaker A: appropriate the best for all your pretendees. There ain't no one better know.
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[01:28:31] Speaker A: This is Guardian Radio, 96.9 FM. Fresh news, smart talk all day.
[01:28:48] Speaker C: And we're back here on Guardian Radio today with Your host, Pastor Dr. Cleveland W. Winius III, also known as Kahun Ankusara. How you get here in the Bahamas? We got special guests in studio Brent Wong. We got Luby George, and we have our dear brother, Christopher Davis, also known as John Qua ii.
Brother Brent, you're on a journey to. You know, like many of us, whether we know it or not, we're trying to discover ourselves.
You've had the, I would call it, privilege of being able to acquire a book called the RA that kind of ties in a lot of these that have come to this side of the world.
How far have you gotten with regard to kind of piecing the.
[01:29:39] Speaker H: The.
[01:29:40] Speaker C: I guess, kind of filling the voids that you may have had within yourself? How far have you gotten in your journey?
[01:29:45] Speaker D: Believe it or not, only a few weeks in, because I only just got this book about two months ago.
[01:29:49] Speaker E: Okay.
[01:29:50] Speaker F: Okay.
[01:29:50] Speaker C: That's right.
[01:29:51] Speaker G: He was so excited.
[01:29:53] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:29:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, that's really. That makes this conversation that much more important for me because I pray I'm helping you to fulfill what it is that you need to fulfill.
[01:30:03] Speaker D: Well, now I got Luby and I got John.
[01:30:05] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:30:06] Speaker D: So they can fill in the gaps.
[01:30:07] Speaker C: I don't want. Yes, yes.
[01:30:08] Speaker D: So, but one of the things that we talked about, even during the breaks was you realize that the more details you find out, we have actually more in common than we do.
[01:30:19] Speaker G: Yeah.
[01:30:20] Speaker D: In conflict.
[01:30:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:30:21] Speaker E: Right.
[01:30:22] Speaker D: So you realize that you actually have more cousins who actually want the same thing.
Then you do have enemies within your own house.
[01:30:30] Speaker E: Right.
[01:30:30] Speaker D: You have enemies.
[01:30:31] Speaker I: That.
[01:30:31] Speaker D: That ain't.
[01:30:32] Speaker F: Yeah.
[01:30:32] Speaker D: That ain't nothing arguing. That's a reality.
[01:30:34] Speaker C: That's real.
[01:30:35] Speaker E: Right.
[01:30:36] Speaker D: You love, you will have. You will have a sibling that will argue with you because they want to do something different.
[01:30:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:30:41] Speaker D: With the whole house.
[01:30:41] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:30:42] Speaker F: Yeah.
[01:30:43] Speaker C: That's true.
[01:30:43] Speaker E: Okay.
[01:30:44] Speaker D: You ain't that kind of a thing.
So one of the things that I intended to do with this was look at. Look at those reasons for these people, for these people who are documented in this book, overlayed with the people who I know who are here so I could get a better picture of that. Of that context, because that's only the people who come from the east side of Asia.
[01:31:03] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:31:04] Speaker D: That ain't my people who have essentially, let's just say, Iris, Irish, last Scottish names on my grandmother's. On my Mother's side. Robinson's.
[01:31:16] Speaker C: Okay, Right.
[01:31:18] Speaker D: Robinson's. And a number of those names from the same settlement where those Robinsons come from. The majority of those names are actually represented back in Turks and Caicos.
[01:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
You say those names to Robinson. What island that is Eight Mile Rock.
[01:31:35] Speaker D: Eight Mile Rock.
[01:31:36] Speaker C: Right.
[01:31:36] Speaker D: Okay, so.
[01:31:37] Speaker A: And it ain't.
[01:31:38] Speaker D: There ain't a whole smatter of people still in the millwalk carrying the Robinson name because the majority of those people ended up being women. So what happens is when they married, they took on the names of everybody else.
[01:31:49] Speaker A: Right.
[01:31:51] Speaker D: Whereas today, you could have an entire family that never took on the family names of their fathers.
I'm not saying that this is more than UCP back then, less than you see back then. It always happened.
It happens.
[01:32:02] Speaker E: Right?
[01:32:03] Speaker D: So what happens is you. You must have to fight to figure out what's the other side. Yeah.
[01:32:08] Speaker E: Right.
[01:32:08] Speaker D: It ain't enough just to get one side of the story. Why part of me still come from someplace else.
[01:32:13] Speaker G: Yes. Right.
[01:32:14] Speaker D: So I need to figure that out.
[01:32:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:32:15] Speaker D: I need to figure out why I was the only one who interested in boats.
And then you realize, okay, well, you know, three.
[01:32:20] Speaker A: Three steps up, that's in you.
[01:32:22] Speaker I: Yeah, yeah.
[01:32:22] Speaker D: Three steps up. You know, your great grandfather was a seaman. Right?
[01:32:26] Speaker C: Right.
[01:32:27] Speaker D: Things like that.
[01:32:27] Speaker F: So.
[01:32:29] Speaker D: So the Robinsons, the Robinson family line from Eight Mile Rock connected to Russell's, Penders, Martins, Hepburns, Johnson's. And when you start adding all of all those names up, it caused you to these men. So we know how important this is, right?
You meet somebody.
Rest y' all married. I'm married.
You meet somebody and they call off more than two common last names in their family, that's a scratch for me.
[01:32:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a scratch.
[01:32:59] Speaker D: I don't care if you convince me, yo, all your family in all your family in Nassau.
No, them families don't originate NASA, friend. Don't try that.
[01:33:09] Speaker E: Right.
[01:33:10] Speaker D: Especially if you know that that's already in your family. That's one thing. But if you know two or more of those family names is connected to a family you already know about and you're too close to that family for one reason or another, you'll be like, look, that's a scratch.
[01:33:23] Speaker C: You. You got to ask, like, 10 years after luing what your name is again, right?
[01:33:31] Speaker D: People, they'll shut it down right away. They say, listen way family, Right?
[01:33:34] Speaker G: Don't worry about that.
[01:33:35] Speaker D: I like you.
[01:33:36] Speaker I: Yeah.
[01:33:37] Speaker A: That's all that matters.
[01:33:38] Speaker H: Right. Again.
[01:33:40] Speaker F: Again, it goes back to the question of how, how. How far are we looking in and encountering brick. Where do we stop?
[01:33:46] Speaker D: Where do we cut it off?
[01:33:47] Speaker F: Like, for you, you just scratch off the top. But some people.
[01:33:51] Speaker A: No, man, Right.
[01:33:52] Speaker F: This the other harness, or this the other this, or this the other that.
[01:33:54] Speaker G: And.
[01:33:55] Speaker F: But if you go digging the deep enough and go further enough, then you would realize that maybe we are connected some way.
[01:34:01] Speaker C: I remember having a family reunion.
Some of my family from the Carolinas that came to the Bahamas.
And at the family reunion, the. The couple that was there with Tree Churn realized that they was like, cousins.
[01:34:17] Speaker G: It was just.
[01:34:18] Speaker A: We just like, ah.
[01:34:19] Speaker C: Well, I mean, like, I.
[01:34:20] Speaker G: Doctor,
[01:34:25] Speaker C: But so, you know,
[01:34:28] Speaker F: I have cousins right now. I saw last year, God rest his soul, a younger cousin of mine passed away, and he was a Ferguson. I'm a Josh. My brother that grew up in the same household as me, he was a Francois.
My younger cousin, again, like I said, that passed away last year was a Ferguson. But nobody's gonna pick up the newspaper and the obituary and see he. See his name and identify him with me.
[01:34:55] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:34:56] Speaker F: But yet that is my cousin.
That's my cousin. His grandmother and my mother were first cousins.
[01:35:05] Speaker G: First cousins.
[01:35:06] Speaker C: Wow.
[01:35:06] Speaker A: So you're altered because.
[01:35:08] Speaker H: Instant.
[01:35:08] Speaker A: Exactly right.
[01:35:09] Speaker F: And his mother and myself, you know,
[01:35:12] Speaker A: we just link up.
[01:35:14] Speaker F: We just party together, we socialize.
[01:35:16] Speaker A: You know what I mean?
[01:35:17] Speaker F: But on that side, they had so many.
My. My mother's cousin, she had about 10 to 12 kids.
[01:35:25] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:35:26] Speaker F: About two boys.
So if there was 12, about 10 of those were females.
[01:35:31] Speaker D: Women.
[01:35:31] Speaker C: Yeah. So each of those women who are all petites, married, clearly. Yeah.
[01:35:36] Speaker F: But when they start having kids with, you know, the Browns and, you know, the Fergusons and the roles, now everybody's a Brown and a Ferguson and a role coming up.
[01:35:45] Speaker C: And you're going to school.
[01:35:46] Speaker A: Wow.
[01:35:46] Speaker C: I see it now.
[01:35:47] Speaker A: And then they ain't organic no more of a.
[01:35:54] Speaker C: How far back are we?
[01:35:55] Speaker F: Are we really coming? And then, so last month, when we were going through the election cycle, you know, I was sitting down, chuckling and giggling at.
[01:36:04] Speaker I: At. At.
[01:36:04] Speaker F: And not trying to knock, but the organic people movement, you know, the COI with their whole thing and how they were painting this picture, and I was like, so you're going off like this, right? Y' all my cousins, who are the Fergusons and the roles and this and that. Whose grandmother is a petite.
[01:36:22] Speaker G: Right.
[01:36:23] Speaker F: Listening to y'.
[01:36:23] Speaker E: All.
[01:36:24] Speaker H: Right.
[01:36:24] Speaker F: But he's a Ferguson, and this one is a role. You don't even know that he's of Asian descent.
[01:36:28] Speaker I: Right.
[01:36:28] Speaker C: You dising. You destination's hot. And they look at you like, you know, now you think when this rule and this.
[01:36:33] Speaker F: For this particular role, this particular Ferguson pull up in that voting boot, you don't think that somewhere at the back of his mind he's thinking about mommy and Grammy and everybody else on that side, despite the fact that they may be Bahamians and permanent residents in here for some 50, 60 years and prior to independence and all of that other good stuff.
So again, you know, there's so much commonalities.
[01:36:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:36:55] Speaker F: But at the same time, there's, you know, the cultural difference in this melting pot. This conch salad is what makes this place such a beautiful place.
Four of us in studio right now.
[01:37:06] Speaker C: Think about it.
[01:37:07] Speaker F: We did our introductions. How many countries represented in this studio? You right now, just off the four of us.
[01:37:11] Speaker A: And I even call my own. Yeah,
[01:37:15] Speaker D: listen, listen. In two generational levels, I walk in here represented like nine countries.
[01:37:20] Speaker F: Okay?
[01:37:21] Speaker G: Right.
[01:37:22] Speaker D: If I show you the picture of that, I could. I could literally identify six nations with. With one. One generation of migration.
[01:37:30] Speaker E: Wow.
[01:37:32] Speaker C: And that's why this show is important.
[01:37:33] Speaker I: Wow.
[01:37:34] Speaker C: At the end of the day, if we don't have these conversations.
So anytime I meet people, I ask them their occupation, I ask them their family, because you could be next to your cousin and don't know it.
[01:37:46] Speaker D: Literally.
[01:37:47] Speaker C: I met a cousin of mine, you know what I'm saying?
[01:37:49] Speaker F: On Monday, Tuesday, yesterday. Yeah, I met a cousin of mine. He's a George's also.
We had a cousin came and visited from Haiti. He was here for two weeks. He left Saturday.
So, yes, Haitians do visit. They do do the tourist thing and go back. So my cousin was here for two weeks and he called that particular cousin and said the last time he visited, he was the only person he didn't get to see. But they have that relationship. They talk over the phone and all of that stuff. So while they were together, they were having some conversations and my name came up and the one from Haiti said,
[01:38:27] Speaker A: well, you do know that's your cousin, right?
[01:38:29] Speaker F: Like, what do you mean, that's my cousin? You mean the lobby? Georges, everybody. He's like, well, what's your last name? You George's too, right? So he was like, your granddaddy and his granddaddy were brothers, right?
[01:38:40] Speaker E: And then.
[01:38:42] Speaker F: And then so this other guy, my cousin who I just met, he called his mother and she's like, yeah. And she started explaining, well, this one and that one and all of this other stuff. And he came to the office on Monday and we sat down and we had A nice conversation. And it's, man, I'm 40. This man is 42 years old. Both of us born here, grew up here, and we just met for the first time yesterday.
[01:39:01] Speaker A: Wow.
[01:39:01] Speaker D: I have a question to ask John real quick. Isn't that. Isn't that one of the primary functional values of the griot in. In African culture?
[01:39:09] Speaker A: To keep that hundred percent? Yeah, to keep it on. And you know, and it's funny because.
And this is something even my own personal experience, they value much in society as well, right. And when you look at. And I hope I stepping on the line here, but I'm a huge fan of Phil Stubbs, right, Who I would also consider a Creole, because griots also play music. They dances, you know, they. They were the ones who figured out certain patterns that are ancient and they'll weave them in there cloth or etch it in the wall, you understand?
[01:39:41] Speaker H: Y.
[01:39:42] Speaker A: And so these griots, griot, however people call it, you know, they play a crucial role. And then nations in the African diaspora even more so. And it's even just like you said in the beginning, it was like, man, I go to Mommy, I go to Grammy. Well, they ain't want to say nothing or they don't know, so I go to mommy, cousin, or my grammy, distant cousin, who's still living in Eight Mile Rock right now. So that's actually what it is. But because we've sort of lost and been disconnected from that culture, we don't like to do it. And then of course, there's a lot of the trauma, the shame, just the proverbial sweeping under the rugs, you know, people, my Smith side of the family, there's a lot of colorism as well.
[01:40:23] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:40:24] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Sort of on the Smith side. This don't exist no more, but I'm back in it. Well, actually, let me bring it to the Davis side.
I'm gonna get into that one.
[01:40:33] Speaker H: Yeah.
[01:40:34] Speaker A: So I have Annie Satella, God bless her soul. One of my favorite aunties just passed away earlier this year. This woman was just an absolute phenom of a woman riding horseback to our farm. Farming until she's 82 years old, riding horse to her farm miles away.
And up to a point in her life, this woman, black, like half past midnight and can't stand black people like Dave Chappelle.
And like I say, God bless my Auntie Satella. So I know I have some fight.
The only reason I go into the up is because all the family and all that, and your grandparents say, book your Grandparum didn't do that. I used to be right there. Yeah, boy, she's talking about Godfrey Kelly like he's a hero, you know, but at the end of the day, that's a big part of it too. It's. It's a sort of shame travel. There is a colonial mindset, unfortunately that contributes to it. You have names like Knowles and Sims and Johnson's out of Lutra. But how array of color and culture and all these different things then that's mixed in with indigenous cultures. Well, I've actually met a few people who was like, man, I think my great grandmother was Chinese. Because they would see this person with Asiatic features, long jet black hair, come to find out she was a Cherokee or.
[01:41:56] Speaker H: Yeah.
[01:41:57] Speaker C: And even the sun in South Africa have. In South Africa, the sun have those.
[01:42:02] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:42:02] Speaker C: Same type of eyes. And I gotta tell you what it is.
[01:42:04] Speaker G: Yeah.
[01:42:05] Speaker C: I gotta tell you, I should have said it earlier. Yeah, yeah. But let me just say I'm grateful for the conversation brand. Of course, you know, you always welcome. We'll have you back. I think next month Ian Moore will join us in the conversation as well.
But we just want to continue having these type of conversations. Texas, I am so sorry that I didn't get to so many texts because. Because there's a lot of political texts that I just ain't addressing on this type of show. So I didn't feel like just, you know, it's like I, I do a more screening and reading so I'm like, you know, but I will read this last text and some of them were actually pretty good. I, I just couldn't keep up with it. I do apologize texters. I want to say shout out to my classmate Toriano. Respect, brother. Thanks for listening, man.
Uncle, you said that your mom still carry Enies, so though she and your father are divorced, she must love your father.
I don't know what that is. But let me tell you, my mom, my, my mom loves her husband now who's a Sanders, right? But her passport, her degrees, her paperwork, like that doesn't change because you get remarried. So she's like, call me Anius. So I don't get confused. That's really all it is. But my, my cousin Simone said you needed to end the show talking about your mommy like, like, like, like Lang used to do. So I said, I ain't lying.
But I want, I want to, I want to give a big shout out to my mom, Lori Eneas. She's a Sanders now.
And I want to thank you all for being here.
We'll. We'll continue this conversation in another few weeks.
The talking heads are up next, so give it up for Naughty and MJ or whoever they may be having on the channel show. But keep it locked on 96.9. Fresh news. Smart talk all day. Namaste, family.
